tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post1363687894924952109..comments2023-11-11T21:26:46.689+00:00Comments on This Side of Sunday: Trying to Think ClearlyJon Couttshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-1473548225284562272008-09-17T03:30:00.000+01:002008-09-17T03:30:00.000+01:00yes Jon, we did :)yes Jon, we did :)Tarasviewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750633944607986537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-58993081242781804942008-09-17T02:50:00.000+01:002008-09-17T02:50:00.000+01:00jonathan: I think I read that vision paper of his....jonathan: I think I read that vision paper of his. I thought it was good.<BR/><BR/>tara: didn't we successfully win a debate against women as elders when we were paired up to defend that side in a class once?Jon Couttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-32947294160425142982008-09-16T18:32:00.000+01:002008-09-16T18:32:00.000+01:00Sorry it's taken me so long to comment on this one...Sorry it's taken me so long to comment on this one, but know that I'm excited to read what you've got - and to interact with those who will also be reading it. If there's anything I can do to help out in the process (besides dialoguing) let me know.<BR/><BR/>As for your closing paragraph, it brought to mind a paper I read by Stephen Elliott (the other guy who ran for president at Assembly). If you haven't read it yet, do so when you get the time. Here's a link: http://cmalliance.ca/files/SteveElliott-VisionPaperfinal_382.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-7673299343154272732008-09-16T05:21:00.000+01:002008-09-16T05:21:00.000+01:00well... I was present during the non-decision and ...well... I was present during the non-decision and it hurt my heart. I felt it was a dismissal and I agree that this is a conversation that NEEDS to happen. <BR/><BR/>I am passionately FOR women in ministry but that does not mean I am incapable of hearing and understanding the opposite view. In fact I have studied both sides at great length and see legitimacy to both arguments. <BR/><BR/>I have often wondered how Godly people who are TRULY seeking to honour Christ can come to such completely opposite views. I just don't get it, although I really believe that is the case in our denomination right now. And in a misguided effort to avoid division there is an embracing of avoidance. But this is not wise. <BR/><BR/>I feel like our (C&MA) refusal to hash out this issue is hindering our ability to grow as a denomination (or Christian community). <BR/><BR/>Personally I do not function well under "Robert's Rules of Order" and the non-decision was made before I could even fully process what was happening! <BR/><BR/>And as a side point I think I feel compelled to stick with the Alliance not because our denomination is somehow better than the others but simply because this is where I have built community. It is where I have invested a LOT of myself. It has become like a family and unless God calls us to another denomination I feel I MUST strive to help the Alliance become all God intends it to be- however small my part may be.Tarasviewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750633944607986537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-24103394034022582502008-09-15T01:37:00.000+01:002008-09-15T01:37:00.000+01:00Hi Jon,You said: "i see community and reconciliat...Hi Jon,<BR/><BR/>You said: "i see community and reconciliation as key. i don't see how we servce Christ by avoiding that."<BR/><BR/>What a wonderful attitude you have! There are so many who run at the sound of conflict instead of using it as a way to grow in the spiritual gifts (especially patience!)<BR/><BR/>We serve Christ by serving others. When we get down under our brothers and sisters in Christ and with our gifts we lift them up, we do a tremendous service to Christ himself because it is his body.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for displaying such a godly Christian attitude! Since I have publicly been called a heretic merely for believing and teaching that according to scripture taken in its full context, women are allowed to use their God-given gifts for the benefit of men and with the authority of 1 Peter 4:10, 11, it is so refreshing to hear you say these kind words. Others are willing to call into question ones salvation for disagreeing on a second issue of faith. What a sad day when the body of Christ turns on itself and rips at the sheep.Cheryl Schatzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319009906205048912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-83418457480051433142008-09-14T22:19:00.000+01:002008-09-14T22:19:00.000+01:00yeah, i'm sorry, i thought i made it clear that my...yeah, i'm sorry, i thought i made it clear that my specific comments were forthcoming.<BR/><BR/>i don't konw if there is a reason to "hold a particular allegiance to any denomination" except for the value to be found in sticking with the one you are in. this is the one i was born in. i think it has a lot of things going for it, but i have also wanted to leave many times as well. but as should become clear as i go here, i think that sticking with your community of faith is crucial, especially when you disagree. we are to be the ambassadors of reconciliation. how do we do that by cutting and running when there is a conflict?<BR/><BR/>but i'm getting ahead of myself. a lot of this comes down to how i understand the gospel and the kingdom of Christ. i see community and reconciliation as key. i don't see how we servce Christ by avoiding that.Jon Couttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-84708585190033005282008-09-14T18:11:00.000+01:002008-09-14T18:11:00.000+01:00It would seem that seperate denominations fight th...It would seem that seperate denominations fight these battles at different times. The Mennonites began this fight a few years ago on a grand scale and simply resolved to allow churches to make up their own minds independent of the greater corporation.<BR/><BR/>So what is your position Jon? You're current stance comes off as a bit esoteric, although it would seem that you're leaning towards "women in ministry".<BR/><BR/>How can one even take a biblical standpoint of Women NOT being permitted in the first place? Because Paul addressed a church (Thessalonica?) about women staying silent? Although I'm pretty sure the context of the preceeding scripture was calling people to stop gossiping.<BR/><BR/>Jon, at the risk of sounding like an anarchist or nihlist; why hold a particular alleigence to any denomination?<BR/><BR/>I've always perceived denominations as a way of saying "we all believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, but it's the details that make us unique and set apart from the rest."Trevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00286751521159111575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-24865919922360091512008-09-14T09:27:00.000+01:002008-09-14T09:27:00.000+01:00I am not part of the C&MA but I have attended ...I am not part of the C&MA but I have attended services in this denomination in the past in looking for a new church. We did enjoy our worship together with the congregations.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if you meant your article to be this way, but I wasn't completely sure what your stand is. Are you waiting for the next serious of articles to reveal whether you are passionately fighting for or against women in ministry?Cheryl Schatzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319009906205048912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-90521748817887069242008-09-13T20:59:00.000+01:002008-09-13T20:59:00.000+01:00Jon,You and I are in complete agreement on this su...Jon,<BR/><BR/>You and I are in complete agreement on this subject, as well as on its importance. I'm not as invested as you are in the CMA response if for no other reason than that I have not been worshiping in a CMA church since my time in Regina. That being said I agree that for those who wish to remain within the CMA family this issue must be discussed honestly and openly.<BR/><BR/>What troubles me most about the reports that I heard from General Assembly is not the (non)decision itself but the fact that honest and open discussion and debate were stifled by political maneuvering. That in and of itself speaks to the beliefs and attitudes of some of those who work to maintain the current situation.<BR/><BR/>I also agree strongly that those of our generation in the CMA cannot remain silent or await "positions of leadership" in order to press for change. This has been a failing of those of us who see ourselves as a youthful minority within the CMA. We have allowed ourselves to be despised for our youth for too long.Colin Toffelmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13857934895856384717noreply@blogger.com