tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post5304269736826085521..comments2023-11-11T21:26:46.689+00:00Comments on This Side of Sunday: We Are No Longer Citizens, We Are ConsumersJon Couttshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-45412445720828837742010-11-24T09:12:42.141+00:002010-11-24T09:12:42.141+00:00Thanks for that link Dwayne.
This is a crazy craz...Thanks for that link Dwayne.<br /><br />This is a crazy crazy time. I don't want to be an alarmist. But at the same time I wonder if we are a frog in a kettle.<br /><br />I used to just laugh at commercials. But we are now cogs in a giant propaganda machine. Such that I can't even be sure which 'green' propaganda to buy.<br /><br />I am thinking a lot about the dilemmas Colin raised. Whatever the church is supposed to do, it definitely seems like it ought to be one community that seeks truth on these matters, and aims to live by that truth, whether the lords and powers of our empire see such lifestyle as nonsensical or not.Jon Couttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-8130381431626221042010-11-24T05:39:38.283+00:002010-11-24T05:39:38.283+00:00Great video link...I try to talk about these thing...Great video link...I try to talk about these things with my grade 7 class in Science but sometimes it's a little much for them. It's frustrating to be fed that individuals can make a change when in reality it needs to be the entire society. But society doesn't want to but in, why would they give up the things that make them comfortable. They are distracted by all of the things that are directly causing the ecological problems. There aren't many kids in my class who don't have an Ipod touch and I don't think many would be willing to give it up, even knowing the large carbon footprint it causes. If it doesn't concern them personally then they are not going change!<br /><br />Check out this site for a great video http://www.storyofstuff.com/The Hansenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07314664448891749168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-38726355252155960462010-11-23T20:57:44.667+00:002010-11-23T20:57:44.667+00:00I found your post, the video and the comments fasc...I found your post, the video and the comments fascinating. Much to think about.Tarasviewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750633944607986537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-22395870269464026452010-11-22T23:21:33.355+00:002010-11-22T23:21:33.355+00:00I know this will sound simplistic, but I wonder if...I know this will sound simplistic, but I wonder if the Christian thing to do is to try to figure out how to be a good human creature and a good human neighbour both within a messed up system as well as subversive of that system (by way of a different kind of community life) but with neither as the reason or rationale. In other words, not trying to be revolutionary or alternative or anything. Just trying to discern and obey Christ in this mess, neither oblivious or aloof to the system nor merely one more group trying to change it (as if therein lies our hope).Jon Couttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-70925002117568435462010-11-22T16:52:20.831+00:002010-11-22T16:52:20.831+00:00BTW, a Marxist would utterly reject the notion tha...BTW, a Marxist would utterly reject the notion that the church can set up an alternative system within the existing system. It would be, for them, like suggesting a train can run where there are no tracks (that is, changing superstructure without changing infrastructure/base, to use the Marxist terminology).<br /><br />I'm not sure if they're right, but the point does need to be considered.Colin Toffelmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13857934895856384717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-51781117873226447702010-11-22T16:48:05.795+00:002010-11-22T16:48:05.795+00:00Ya, you hit a point of sharp tension that I've...Ya, you hit a point of sharp tension that I've been thinking about a lot in the last couple of years. As a church do we opt for something like the Dutch-Reformed model of influencing and engaging the culture in which we find ourselves, or do we opt for something more like the Anabaptist attempt to set up an alternative reality within the culture where we find ourselves? I don't have a good answer for the question, though I do think the reason I'm so divided on the issue is that the pragmatic side of me prefers an attempt to work within the system that is, and the idealist side of me hates that system and would rather ignore it or burn it to the ground. I suppose that second side is also realist to a degree, in my admission that the system as it is may not be redeemable, and may in fact be the root of the problem in the first place.<br /><br />But, I suppose, a realist must also ask whether it is in fact possible to set up an alternative reality within the culture, or if Hauerwas/Yoder and their disciples are just fooling themselves.<br /><br />I don't know man...hard stuff. But the beginning, for me, is still to say that the current state of affairs is essentially tied to our current economic and political systems.Colin Toffelmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13857934895856384717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-45540182545953021892010-11-22T16:06:17.778+00:002010-11-22T16:06:17.778+00:00yeah, great question.
I wonder if we ought to ask ...yeah, great question.<br />I wonder if we ought to ask also whether churches, however, can change their basic way of operating, regardless of whether the society as a whole can be changed. Resident alien takes on a whole other connotation. We actually live a different system, even within the current one, whether it is changeable or not.<br /><br />just thinking out loud here. (obviously not the first to think these things, but increasingly open to joining these trains of thought)Jon Couttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-102438252388770852010-11-22T13:45:15.379+00:002010-11-22T13:45:15.379+00:00You are, of course, very right on all counts. One...You are, of course, very right on all counts. One of the things I've been wondering about for awhile now, though, is whether the economic and political structures that we have at the moment CAN be made to fix these problems.<br /><br />I spent a lot of last Winter reading Marxist theorists, and while I'm not a fan of their solutions, I do (to plagiarize a friend) rather agree with their diagnosis of the problem. The key bit that I think Marxists get right is that the relationship between culture, economy, and politics is inseperable and systemic. That is to say, you can't change one without changing the others as well.<br /><br />So if that's the case (and I think it is), the real question for me is whether late-capitalism and our current so-called "democracies" can be made to change their spots (so to speak). Is reform possible? Or, as the Marxists think, do we need a revolution?Colin Toffelmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13857934895856384717noreply@blogger.com