tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post6304790646170983005..comments2023-11-11T21:26:46.689+00:00Comments on This Side of Sunday: How to Treat People Like Tax CollectorsJon Couttshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-30094789564252827852020-07-15T13:59:27.635+01:002020-07-15T13:59:27.635+01:00Having been in a situation where I have had to dea...Having been in a situation where I have had to deal with somebody who was difficult to deal with, when I recently read this for the first time, I felt that I instantly understood what Jesus meant by treating somebody like a tax collector; simply deal with them only insofar as you are required to do so and no more.<br /><br />In my case, I avoid unnecessary contact but when required, I treat them and speak to them respectfully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-78808221324314163432014-09-02T18:08:28.717+01:002014-09-02T18:08:28.717+01:00I currently am working in a church where I have a ...I currently am working in a church where I have a member who I suspect has a Compulsive Personality Disorder. She believes that she runs the church & it is her church, for two years she worked with her mother and sister to enforce her control of the church. (driving members out of the church in the process) Even when confronted by the pastor, and members of the congregation- Even when flat out told by the congregation at an annual meeting that this behavior must stop, she can't. Even though her mother and sister have now recognized this behavior and distanced themselves from it - she can't stop. In this case, I do think that both Matthew and Calvin understood that this behavior can become quite destructive to the church if allowed to persist. That's why I think in this one instance, where a person's behavior is so unchristian and destructive to the congregation, that Matthew meant for it to be interpreted from the Jewish point of view of gentiles and tax collectors of that time. I know this person is hurting tremendously, the church was the last social organization in town that she hasn't been tossed out of for her behavior, but I struggle to figure out how to minister to someone who is so disrespectful of both the pastor and the church leadership.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-78523876864665124322013-10-24T12:19:25.747+01:002013-10-24T12:19:25.747+01:001 Corinthians chapter 5 talks about this. Paul say...1 Corinthians chapter 5 talks about this. Paul says it is not a Christian's business to judge a heathen, but if a Christian decides to live like a heathen and not repent after being admonished in these ways (as best possible) then that person is to be shunned and excommunicated. "With such a person do not even eat." Again - does not apply to nonChristians.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04680112607635885121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-68143223951765367682013-08-08T17:56:58.916+01:002013-08-08T17:56:58.916+01:00I can actually say that I thoroughly enjoyed readi...I can actually say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading your explanation. I've been re-reading the Bible using an app I love on my phone and tablet and decided not just to read because it's God's word & I've been taught since birth basically that's what we do but this time I'm taking a look between the line; Really noticing the subtext, and being a person who thirst for knowledge as well as a Christian who had strayed from the flock til about a yr ago who yearns for more & more of His spirit through any means, what better way than to study His words. Thank you for such an intelligent and well reasoned explanation of a question I actually googled!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06053104840724658218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-20425963901980667212011-02-10T19:37:28.402+00:002011-02-10T19:37:28.402+00:00ahhh, that does make sense. I always just thought...ahhh, that does make sense. I always just thought he was telling them they are idiots for choosing the first son who I also would choose.Tony Tantihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619319927519736211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-66309698458594083822011-02-10T09:14:23.735+00:002011-02-10T09:14:23.735+00:00Jon: I'm interested that you raise the issue o...Jon: I'm interested that you raise the issue of hermeneutics (i.e. authorial intent and readers impact and trajectory of text). I wasn't thinking about any such methodology, but when I do I find it hard to even figure out which of them I'm focusing on. I feel like what I'm doing is taking Jesus' instructions which take for granted that the scenario is pretty cut and dry (i.e. "when/if someone sins against you") and then applying them to all the situations in which it is not that straightforward (i.e. when you confront that person and find the sins are embedded in whole bunch of other factors). I think when we do this we find that Jesus' instructions still hold; still enable us to do the main thing, which is to to get together, the two or three of us, in Jesus' name, and seek to win or be won over to the same side (recognizing that just by meeting in this way we already are united in Christ).<br /><br />Tanti: I don't think Jesus' tag on the end of that parable is in response to their choice of the first son. I think he told the story knowing full well they'd choose the first son, and rightly so. But here as in many of his parables to the teachers of the law, he is trying to get them to realize that <i>they</i> are the second son. <br /><br />(In other words it is a Jew/Gentile thing; a healthy/sick thing; a self-righteous/contrite-sinner thing. The healthy don't think they need a doctor; the one's giving lip service or even great law-service may actually not be serving God - that sort of thing.)Jon Couttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-42630923574330011662011-02-09T22:46:58.018+00:002011-02-09T22:46:58.018+00:00A favorite passage of mine, I like how you interac...A favorite passage of mine, I like how you interacted with it and made the point that the answer isn't as obvious as many think to the question of how to treat a person after reconciliation attempts have failed.<br /><br />I'm curious to know about your take on the workers in the vineyard question, sort of relates to our conversation at Christmas about what we do defining us and not what we say. Why is Jesus so harsh on them for picking the first son, he is the one who went to the vineyard?Tony Tantihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619319927519736211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18173351.post-78515651682726467962011-02-08T18:07:07.970+00:002011-02-08T18:07:07.970+00:00"There is no in/out here. It is all in. Let t..."There is no in/out here. It is all in. Let the refusers refuse. Ours is a posture of embrace."<br /><br />Very well put.<br /><br />Exegesis is such a tricky thing though - it's a good reminder here that it's not just "How did the original hearers understand it?" or "How have Christian's often understood it?", but it's also "What's the trajectory that Christ sets us out on... and what is his Spirit calling us to?"<br /><br />Because even if this isn't how the early church worked out Jesus' teaching on this - and even if people side with Calvin's interpretation - I think it's hard to deny that your way of seeing this rings truest with the character of Jesus.<br /><br />A good reminder for me to keep prayerfully studying Scripture - not just books and commentaries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com